Topic: [WIP] The Twilight Knight (in Darkest Dungeon)

This topic contains 517 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Balgin Balgin 3 days, 2 hours ago.

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  • #234495
    Balgin
    Balgin
    Participant

    I don’t think it’s a good idea. I’m experimenting to see which one of them feels right for the riposte stance. Here’s how I feel about the two skills.

    Glimmer of Hope & Understanding combo: Having a defensive fighting style where she concentrates on removing stress from allies while putting up a riposte stance for counterattacks feels very good for those moments when a fight really isn’t going well and she needs to help stabilise the situation. In this case she would be defending her allies by drawing the attention of foes and making counterattacks to help soften up/finish off dangerous enemies.

    Courage: The aggressive buffs with riposte would be for a more aggressive play style. She wants to kill stuff so she powers herself up. This lowers her defences as she hacks away recklessly and overextends herself. However, so eager is she to do battle that she slashes at anything that comes near (so attack buffs, defence debuffs & riposte for anything that dares to take advantage of her lowered defence).

    I’m also toying with the idea of having her Glimmer of Hope skill mark her. So it would remove stress from an ally, raise the light level, and make her an obvious target … because she’s the one holding the lantern shouting at people, coordinating their attacks, and keeping their spirits up. The one thing we do not want is to combine guard, mark, and riposte all in the same skill as that would be far too powerful. The fact she will not have a Guard skill should help to balance this but even riposte & mark at once is a bit too powerful. Mark is both a blessing and a weakness as it renders her more vulnerable to certain foes but makes those foes more likely to target her instead of her less durable allies. Actually she’s less durable now as well as I toned down her health but improved her dodge. I probably need to reduce the accuracy & crit rate on some of her attacks ‘though as they feel like they’re hitting a little bit too often for ever so slightly more damage than feels balanced.

    #234501
    killthemall
    killthemall
    Participant

    Maybe have her riposte with her mark? not sure if that would be a good idea but it might make the mark more useful since none of her other skills synthesizes with it.

    #234512
    Balgin
    Balgin
    Participant

    Nah. Mark & Riposte is a bad combination. Mark invites enemies to target her and Riposte punishes them for doing so. The Man-at-arms has such a skill but he also has a Guard skill to increase his Riposte potential. Guard means he counts as 2 party members for targeting (intervening for the ally that he’s protecting) while his Riposte skill (which also marks him, thus making foes even more likely to target him) makes his Riposte quite powerful.

    Conversely the Highwayman’s Riposte skill does not mark him. It does not guard anyone, but it does place him in a rather dangerous situation (rushing him up to the front where he’s quite squishy and not as durable as the high dodge Graverobber of Jester). The Highwayman’s riposte is an aggressive one. It actually does more damage. The Man at-arms’ riposte is a defensive one. It deals less damage but has a ramping riposte damage buff dependant on skill level. I’m experimenting with the man-at-arms’ version of the riposte tonight but without having the Twilight Knight gain the damage buff that he deploys. Essentially her riposte should currently be a low damage riposte.

    I’m trying to avoid giving her something that synergises with it yet (although the Mark on Glimmer of Hope may well work). Likewise having an Antiquarian there with her Protect Me skill would make for a very potent combination.

    Now if I combine Courage & Insight/Understanding into one skill and maybe do something involving Slay the Beast & Hack merging there should be room for Strike to Stun and Doomed to Die to fit in there. My gut feeling is that the sword attacks are an important part of her identity and taking one away to make room for yet another non sword skill might feel bad.

    We’d be looking at

    Hack/Slay the Beast (these really work quite well as separate skills at the moment)
    Cleave (probably rename to something like Whirlwind Strike based on the pose you’re working on)
    Strike to Stun (half swording pommel strike to the head)
    Doomed to Die (marking target & debuffing them)*
    Insight/Courage/Understanding (stress removal & self buff with riposte)
    Glimmer of Hope (party stress removal, raise light level, mark self)
    Run to Ground (working pretty much as is)

    * It’s entirely possible to add Mark to Slay the Beast (a powerful but exhausting melee attack) but why waste such a lovely pointing Mark pose?

    The way Hack and Slay the Beast work currently is that Hack is the standard attack that slowly increases her overall combat effectiveness (the build up skill similar to the Graverobber’s thrown dagger) and then Slay the Beast is the big hit to finish something off but it’s tiring (so then Hack would be used to fill the recovery time similar to a Hellion using Adrenaline Rush after Breakthrough).

    The above is a potential list. I’m still more attracted to the current working skill list although I think it needs to change a little. Not quite as radically ‘though. Might think about using that Mark pose for one of her buff skills with the lovely number 1 buff pose working for the others.

    #234720
    Balgin
    Balgin
    Participant

    I can confirm that the riposte skills are working as intended. She seems to be taking a lot more damage now that she has less health & more dodge. It almost feels balanced but I’m getting a glass cannon vibe that’s a little bit too deadly and a little bit too fragile. Not quite what I was going for. It might be time for a little rebalance.

    #235531
    killthemall
    killthemall
    Participant

    Sorry i haven’t responded in a while. How did the testing go? Also since I only have a rough draft of it, scraping the mark stance won’t be a big deal. The proportions for the drawing still needs work since I just quickly tossed it in there.

    Edit: Also do you want to see my progress? I am thinking of exporting a png file every once in a while so you can see where I am. The problem however is that you may end up with a lot of notifications since I save a lot.

    #235600
    Balgin
    Balgin
    Participant

    Hey there kill.

    I would absolutely love seeing progress. I used to doodle and draw a bit physically so seeing the progression interests me. I don’t mind about seeing updates pop up every now and then.

    If we scrap the riposte I like the riposte pose. It’s a keeper (if we can keep it).

    Testing is going well. Or at least it was. Reynauld & Dismas managed to get themselves killed so I started a new campaign. I’m going for the achievement of keeping them alive to take part in the final quest. It also lets me test a lot more.

    Overall she feels almost balanced. Her attacks are a little bit too powerful. I probably need to tweak her crit rate slightly as she seems to crit ever slightly too often. She seems to take more damage now but that’s because she has more dodge & slightly less health. I’ll probably tweak her defensive stats a bit.

    Having Riposte on both her buff skills works out okay. She’s currently using the man-at-arms’ riposte instead of the highwayman’s riposte. The difference is that the highwayman’s riposte does -20% damage, flat rate. The man-at-arms’ riposte does -35 to -10% damage depending on his skill level.

    I have not renamed any skills yet or tried out a serious overhaul with merging skills or replacing any. I wanted to discuss it with a few friends who’ve played the game a fair bit to get their opinions on how the different skill sets would play out. I’m pretty deep in the think tank here and getting an outside perspective would probably help as I’m pretty sure I’m overthinking this.

    #235946
    Balgin
    Balgin
    Participant

    I’m liking the look of the latest defend sprite. Because it’s not defined in the art file we have to use a defend sprite so I tested them all to see which would be the best fit. In most cases either the top of the sword hilt or a little bit of her left boot goes out of frame. I included the best fits in the folder for your perusal.

    Were you planning on rescaling her? I’d say the Hellion’s the best fit. We’d just need to scoot her foot slightly closer to her body or adjust that piece of cloth/leather flapping out to the side there.

    #235950
    killthemall
    killthemall
    Participant

    Nope, so the thing is that I haven’t been thinking very well lately(not sure if it is the lack of food or sleep)…because if I was, I would have noticed that since these sprites have no meshes I can scale up the image without the lost of resolution and all i would have to do is adjust the .atlas file to use the new file size(which I did today). So what this means is that I can scale up almost any sprite to fit her sprites. I used the hellion for the defense but I haven’t placed it in the dropbox file since I am working on the camp, investigate, and defense all at once.

    Edit: I guess you can still test it. I added it in the dropbox folder.

    #235957
    Balgin
    Balgin
    Participant

    I’ll test that. Thanks :).

    If we can scale things up without a loss of resolution is there any chance we could scale down as well? I’d love a “dwarven” man-at-arms (two third of the size but otherwise unchanged). I can probably tweak the art on that one myself :). Don’t worry. Not asking. Let’s focus on the Twilight Knight. The workload’s heavy enough already as it is.

    #235965
    killthemall
    killthemall
    Participant

    Yes, it’s much easier to scale things down. Though a problem with a mod like that would be the combat, walking, and idle stances since those have meshes and you cannot scale those down.

    #236032
    Balgin
    Balgin
    Participant

    I’ve added some colour (all recycled from existing TK sprites) for testing purposes. The black lines in the current test version might blend into the background too much so the colour is simply to make it easier to see. I’ll test some time this afternoon or evening (it is 12.57pm here at the moment after all :P).

    For the Defend sprite we can probably alter the angle of the face somewhat. This would indicate the head tilting forwards (and would be in keeping with the hood remaining forwards as her body jerks back). Since the defend sprite is also used for stress attacks and imobilising attacks it might merit having her mouth open in a snarl or worried shout (although it wouldn’t be very visible in that position).

    #236080
    killthemall
    killthemall
    Participant

    Mmmmh, I was going for her being emotionless throughout the sprites due to her mind being locked.

    #236150
    Balgin
    Balgin
    Participant

    Hmm. It’s less that her emotional state is locked and more that she has incredible emotional control. The sword is conscious. It is raw emotion. It wants to slice and kill. All the time. even when she’s not in danger. She is in a constant battle of will with the sword and suppressing her emotions (personally) makes it harder for the sword to gain influence over her. The cloak helps her remain calm a little bit but she does most of the work herself. The cloak is more of a beginner’s aid. As she grows more experienced she comes to rely on it less and less (or finds it less helpful as the sword’s constant demands begin to overpower it’s soothing effect).

    However she still needs to breath. Often a huff of breath, a sharp exhalation, helps to add force to a blow (as does stamping, footwork, throwing your weight into it etc). A few attacks could show a snarl (7?), huff/puff (2?) or gritted teeth (defence). They don’t have to. It’s possible for a fairly unemotional expression that still conveys physical exertion.

    As this is Darkest Dungeon (where no-one is immune to the rigours and hardships of the mind) she might spend a lot of time afflicted, stress out etc. Showing a little emotion can help convey a degree of vulnerability. We probably don’t want to overdo it ‘though. That calm relaxed expression of hers will work for most things although she’s often depicted with a slight frown or troubled expression in the eyes while the rest of her face conveys little emotion if any. Since characters in Kingdom Death don’t have eyes we have some room for flexibility.

    #236205
    Balgin
    Balgin
    Participant

    Okay. It’s displaying oddly. I know they move forwards when the sprites display so they appear to sink into the ground but she’s still looking a little squashed/stretched out sideways. At least attachments are working again :).

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    #236508
    actionjack
    actionjack
    Participant

    Oh wow.. Mini TK look sweet!

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