Topic: The Over-Levelling Problem

This topic contains 37 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by  SKull 2 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #9052

    PolishKruk
    Participant

    The level lock isn’t the end of the world but it is terribly frustrating the first time it is encountered. I like the ideas that have been thrown around to resolve it, especially using your higher level guys as “mentors”. Let higher level characters run lower level quests but every time they do so have them end up taking roughly 90% of the rewards as their “compensation” and have a higher chance to get greedy or lazy quirks at the end. That keeps players from grinding w/o risk and still fits into the character of the game.

    #9121

    brimsurfer
    Participant

    agreed with OP I have quite a few level 3s and I can’t kill bosses such as Swine Prince with them as they wont go on that mission, rest of my group is level 0s and I have a couple of level 1s, kinda stuck here.

    #9168

    billo
    Participant

    Deleting the Level cap of Dungeons would miss the whole concept of the game.

    1. The Heroes are little divas who will risk their life only for Wealth and Glory. And that is something you dont get in a lvl 1 dungeon with babymonsters… I can totally understand the heroes!

    2. It is your job to manage a whole castle of heroes. It is a guild-leader-simulation like “its a whipe” with rpg elements. But most important it is not a Dragon Age, D3, Final Fantasy, etc where you have your favourite Squad you are doing everything with. If you want a game like this, dont play Darkest Dungeon.

    3. Every Dungeon-attempt should be challenging. At therefore you are not allowed to wreck those dungeons with high heroes, just to have it easier and to level your other heroes.

    Thats why i think, that the level cap is pretty awesome in fact of the mechanics, concept of the game and roleplaying factors

    Why are you not able to defeat Swine prince? he is pretty easy, if you found out how to fight…

    #9243

    Kawoh
    Participant

    Hello !

    This problem is real, i think, and a simple and not breaking solution would be :

    Add a new building in town with it’s own upgrades, that would be used to level-up MANUALLY your heroes. When a hero gets enough XP points, he can get leveled up at that building for gold, or ressources, or nothing at all (?), it could root him for the week or not, but it’s the concept of manually that would solve the problem. You could even get a red glowing message when you level him up to LVL3 that this hero will refuse to go to easy green missions once he is, with a choice “are you sure; yes/no” ect…

    There you go !

    EDIT : Of course, game design wisely, any hero that have reached sufficient amount of XP to level would not get any more xp for completing quests…until he is leveled up. To avoid farming abuse you could even add a malus on gold and ressources collected on none-boss missions completed with XP caped heroes

    #9308

    Vampsoldier
    Participant

    Okay I can’t believe people are complaining about the level cap of missions. I read some good arguments but I will bring sum some of the stuff up that speaks against taking the level cap away:

    1. The developers probably wanted to avoid that people are beating a level 1 mission like the Apprentice Necromancer with a level 5 champion squad which would entirely take the difficulty out of the boss fight.

    2. Even if you beat level 1 bosses or unlock level 3 and 5 missions, the game still offers little green apprentice missions. Training a squad is still an option. I know what I’m talking about, I’ve been playing this for 30 hours now and had to level many squads back up which I lost. Just look for the small green icons on the quest map.

    3. The gaming story is centered around your heroes becoming veterans by facing unspeakable horrors, monters and hardships that drove them into mental breakdowns and insanity. If I would’ve gone through all that and became a champion, I wouldn’t want to go on an apprentice mission. That crap would just be under my niveau and I can totally understand them.

    4. And the last and most important reason why you don’t have to take the cap away… YOU HAVE A ROSTER THAT CAN TAKE UP TO MAXIMUM 20 CHAMPS! Seriously people, that are five whole squads you can have there. How hard is it to keep squads in varying degrees of levels? I always have at least one squad on level 1 or level 2 and I managed to easily beat all the level 1 bosses like Wizened Hag, Swine Prince and Apprentice Necromancer before I hit the limits of my roster. A full level 2 Squad is enough of that. Not to mention, when all squads are on level 3 and you STILL didn’t kill the level 1 bosses… well I guess you did something wrong.

    I hope I covered every point but I can’t make this anymore clearer. Everyone who complains that their one and only successful squad is now too high in level to beat a level 1 boss just either didn’t exploit the full potential of the roster or wasn’t able to do a long-term management of his crew.

    Edit: I know that characters die or drop out because of gambling, praying and so on or the sanitarium but with 20 at your disposal, this should just be a matter of management. My suggestion is to keep at least four to six free spaces so you can assemble a qhole squad for leveling purpose. That still leaves you with three whole squads which is more than enough to face all hardships and bosses.

    #9343
    Krakenbul
    Krakenbul
    Participant

    Okay, so you party is over leveled so you start a new one but its REALLY hard to keep the XP even due Stress levels and you having to bench out party members to reduce it, so unless you bench the whole squad (which you REALLY, REALLY dont want to do at the start) you team will have uneven XP as if you take the low stressed one with other party members will move them closer to the lvl3 limit.

    YOu are wrong gosh, how old are you? This game isnt dark sould or dmc and thank god. In this game you dont manage 4 heroes, you can manage up to 20 AND YOU NEED to manage them. You are just being absurd because you want the game to be a completly different one. When I started playing I saw the consequences of each run so I start leveling a backup crew and never had a problem.

    The answer is no and in this game it really, really takes the piss, I have the skill to keep my guys alive so the game takes away the chance to use them again? Its not fun being punished for being good…

    You arent good because you are not managing correcting your crew. Im at late game and I dont have such problems. I keep leveling some hereos into mid game from low levels, so tell me, why are you getting punished if yo uare being good? Im not. Do you know you can have up to 20 crew slots? Its in fact the first thing you should consider. And voilà, problems are gone.

    You are in fact, being pretty bad at this game because you guys dont recognize the basic mechanics of this game as a good thing.

    Accept it this is a different game and you need to learn how to play this game if you dont want to get rkt. Deal with it.

    All it adds is superficial difficulty. I can have all my characters at 6, leveled without touching the bosses, dismiss all of them at once and recruit a completely new roster just to slay the bosses. It was especially painful when I decided that I wanted 2 of each and had to dismiss 4 6s just to make sure I have a 4-man party to get to 6 again. It wasn’t difficult, didn’t drain my gold that much and it was more or less a grind for perfection.

    Considering that you’re implying this mechanic is making the game difficult when it is obviously not, tells me you aren’t focusing much on the topic as much as you are on trying to have an ego trip or attacking the player’s ego, by blaming it on him, just because you can’t accept this as a problem.

    That aside, the fact that you need to start a new savefile just to revisit old/low-level content (when a simple handicap could be put in) definitely accentuates the problem. I find the low level dungeons and bosses harder and I would love to be able to at least be able to artificially make the game more difficult for myself beyond dark runs and risky non-provision runs. Specifically limit to gear/skill levels, etc. without actually arbitrarily and nonscensically placing these restrictions upon myself.

    This problem is a conspicous flaw of design that needs to be addressed.

    P.S I’d advise you to never start or end a post like you did. No one would take you seriously otherwise.

    Edit: Also it would be interesting to see the interaction between low level and high level characters. For example, when a low level character misses, the veterans get aggrevated and their stress increases while the low levels get stressed because of the pressure from the veterans. A lot can be built upon such a basic concept and it could add a new level of complexity whilst working towards fixing the problem.

    #9364

    Phalnax
    Participant

    4. And the last and most important reason why you don’t have to take the cap away… YOU HAVE A ROSTER THAT CAN TAKE UP TO MAXIMUM 20 CHAMPS! Seriously people, that are five whole squads you can have there. How hard is it to keep squads in varying degrees of levels? I always have at least one squad on level 1 or level 2 and I managed to easily beat all the level 1 bosses like Wizened Hag, Swine Prince and Apprentice Necromancer before I hit the limits of my roster. A full level 2 Squad is enough of that. Not to mention, when all squads are on level 3 and you STILL didn’t kill the level 1 bosses… well I guess you did something wrong.

    I agree with this entirely – it encourages the player to spend items on upgrading the carriage to take additional, lower level heroes. I have never had a problem with multiple staggered groups of heroes with various capabilities. Why bother hiring additional heroes at all if you could just stomp through them with a higher level group? In this way there is some threat present.

    - The best defense is a good defense filled with spears.

    #9400

    TheGallow
    Participant

    This topic has been pretty hotly debated on reddit too, though I have to say that the voices in support of revamping the system are absolutely correct. The current overleveling system has some fundamental problems, not because of any difficulty factor, but because it punishes the player for succeeding. There are also some situations in the embark screen that are pretty frustrating to encounter, such as the time I was only given level 1 missions, but the only character not crazy/in rehab was level 3. Basically, because I had *not failed* earlier, means I have no chance of success now. Battles should be fought in the dungeons, not the character select screen (this is not LoL). I ended up having to dismiss a character, not because I was making a tactical decision, but because the game forced an impossible situation on me. While in town. For succeeding.
    Again, I need to repeat: battles should be fought in the dungeons, not the character select.

    I actually came across a way to remove the level restrictions, so I did so and found myself having a much more enjoyable experience. Sure it made the lower level dungeons easier, but guess what? It doesn’t mean jack in the end game. A group of level 6 characters leveled with the current restrictions are going to have the same challenge in a max level dungeon as a group of characters leveled without. Beginner content does not matter in respects to endgame.

    Speaking of endgame, there is another annoying possible scenario where I have 20 level 6’s, and lose one because RNGesus hates me. Should I dismiss 3 characters I have invested in just so I can field a team to level only one guy? Should I wait until 3 other character die before I recruit? What happens when my E-team loses a guy at level 3? Start over? I get that the game is ‘making the best of a bad situation’, but there is no best option here. Hell, there hardly is even an option.

    Anyway, one of the core concepts of pretty much any game with a leveling system is that old content becomes easier relative to the starting level. If everything gains as much power as you do as you level, why even have a leveling system in the first place? Come to think of it, I think this was one of the biggest gripes with Elder Scrolls Oblivion. “Yeah, steel armor and weapons! Instead of doing 10% damage per hit to those bandits, I can do 12%!” Then you find out that the bandits also upgraded, and you still do a relative 10% hp damage per hit. Annoying. Obviously, this is not the same type of game as Oblivion, but the sentiment persists.

    Really though, this is a *stupid* topic to be arguing. There are a lot of games out there that have this figured out, I’m really surprised that those arguing against a revamp haven’t considered the numerous available solutions. Every concern I’m about to list here has been encountered and handled by other games and in better ways:

    Afraid the removal will make the game easier? Difficulty is a numbers game, buff the monsters’ damage, up their armor, make them more stressful. Bonus points if it’s dynamic to the avg party level when overleveled.
    Grinding old dungeons for XP? Going from level 5 to 6 is something along the lines of 50(?) XP,and you get 2 per short level 1 dungeon. If 25 runs isn’t enough of a deterrent, drop the XP to 0 if overleveled (like, pretty much any MMO. Ever. No grinding boars to level 60, Stan)
    Oh noes, power leveling newbs? Cut their XP gains, stress them a bit more, haze the noob.
    Loot farming? Overleveled characters get a cut as their commission. Make it barely profitable. Give *incentives* for doing current content.
    Want early bosses to be a challenge (assuming we don’t go the ‘buff the boss’ route)? The OP’s suggestion is perfect for this.

    If the devs want the game to be a challenge, that’s fine, no one is arguing against that. People are making a strawman out of fixing an extremely frustrating game mechanic.

    Scouting...

    #9552

    Tombosaurus
    Participant

    I was addicted to this game untill I noticed my 2 full teams and a couple of spare dudes were “too good for lower content”. No warning whatsoever and now I’m stuck..

    The only option I now see is deleting about 3 of those dudes to recruit new guys. Wich I’m honestly not doing because I’ll be facing the same problem again when some dudes hit level 5. It’s just not fun gameplay and in the hopes this will get fixed I just decided to bench the game for awhile.

    Unless the purpose of this game is building an army of follower teams of all possible levels, wich I doubt, followers really should be allowed to go on lower level missions.

    The game is hard enough as is, it really doesn’t need this level management slop.

    #9664

    fractguy
    Participant

    There is a simple solution for this issue

    First: remove level cap

    Second: add a time gauge who progress each week. As it goes on, it stacks malus on your party (debuff party resist, debuff stress resist, buff monsters strength, attacks on your village). You reset this gauge when you kill a boss. Dungeon exploration scale with lv mission (a lv 1 mission on a lv3 dungeon scout almost nothing).

    So you can’t farm easy dungeons at will without wreaking your entire game but you can manage your team XP progression a little easier if you can afford to spend some time for that. It prevents also newbie hire/sac mechanism abuse when you can’t spend a week to do nothing.

    #9797

    Gunzak
    Participant

    I had this problem too. I leveled my main group to level 3 then when I went for the Necromancer they refused to go so I created a brand new throwaway group and went for him and even though I had one toon die in the fight I still was able to kill him. The brand new group was Hellion, Hellion, Plague Doctor and Occultist. The Plague Doc died during the fight after getting critted and he bleed out his next turn.

    #9868

    Xavien
    Participant

    There is another related issue to this. In my current campaign I have six level 3 characters. None of these have done any missions since reaching level 3. Of these six characters, two have 16/30 resolve xp, two have 15/30 resolve xp, and the remaining two have 14/30 resolve xp. I’m unsure if this will translate to uneven level ups when they reach level 4. If that does prove to be the case then actively trying to level groups of four together will not work.

    #9992

    Gunzak
    Participant

    I started over again this morning and I created 2 good parties and several that I grabed from the coach and sent in with nothing just to see how far they could get and quit out with gold, trinkets and heirlooms. Suprising I actually had several survive and complete the objective, though with horrible stress (One party all 4 had 100) and bad quirks but then I just dismissed them and created 4 more to throw into the grinder. This allowed me to level up the blacksmith, coach, guild, tavern and abbey and have over 50,000 gold. Beating the Necromancer in total darkness (I no longer use any torches) and making over 13,000 gold in a single run helped too.

    My two new parties are the starting 4 (Crusader, Highwayman, Plague Doc and Vestal) and a second party of (Leper, Hellion, Bounty Hunter and Vestal). Before the Helion nerf I was using 3 Helions and either a Vestal or Occultist but now they can’t hit for s***, Average 1-3 dmg, and that debuff is huge. I figure just chop the f*** out of the first rows while stunning as much as I can with that new nerf. Even post nerf the Helions first turn stun on two targets (unlikely to land again) and her single target hack are still very nice.

    #10000

    Angamoth
    Participant

    Level cap isn’t a problem or annoyance, it’s just a mild nuisance that will catch you unawares ONCE.

    Worst case scenario: No roster upgrades (9 people) and full group of 4 ready to take on the boss, so you are left with 5, which may or may not form a workable party (although they should).

    More common scenario: You try to send 1-2 lv3 on an easy mission to get a full group of 4 3s and you notice that you can’t, you are left with 7-8 people that SHOULD make a workable party (or you are boned for a whole different reason).

    Then be aware of that and you will be fine, if you see someone with “full” lvl bar, don’t use him any more before going after the boss.

    “But what if one of my 3+ dies, I need to sack 3 more to ground up a new one!” No you don’t, I actually kicked myself for being a dummy and thinking the same, but simply send that 0s on a short lv3/5 dungeon with 4s,5s and 6s, they will flip their stuff, will be more likely to die (but who cares), but if they survive they will level like crazy.

    And if you have full roster of 3s and stil hadn’t killed lv1 bosses, than with all undue respect, you are playing the game in a wrong way.

    #12699

    Bojownik
    Participant

    Sorry for poor english but i am bether talker then writer in engl…:D
    Iam a noob in this game but i understand the problem of level cap good stuf in this and bad stuff.:/
    The best soluction i think is to give a player a choice simple creating a difficult level
    On easy there is no level caps stack of food and tourches are bigger and other stuuf…
    medium hard and insane difficult levels .If you are sadomasohist play on insane .
    The developers create a a game and they wona sell this game for much many people ass posible.Not for 10k players who really like difficult games but rest of players who are not so hardcore games will dont buit simply becouse they lose man every battle:/Or will read comments of others who complain that game is impossible to play and mechanics is stupid and unfair.
    Dont attack players simply becouse they not so good as you are. This is kindergarden level of behavior thats is reality AND THIS IS ONLY A GAME! So why so serious Once again sorry for poor english

    PS:Game have great potencial And i cheat in game files so some stuff are cheaper and have more capacity in stock simple! I just wona have a choice simple:D

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